Original Message: Member: cjanczy
8-22-2001 11:19:18 AM
I just read "Royko: A Life in Print" and was thinking about it and carlini's post about the old Bucket O'Suds on Cicero Ave. It occurred to me that what Chicago's tech community REALLY needs is
a bar where the best and brightest discuss issues of the day. The "Bucket" served this purpose in the 80's. Where can we go today? Perhaps this place exists and I am unaware of it. Thoughts?
Suggestions?
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Reply: Member: AdamFendelman 8-22-2001 11:56:01 AM
Why don't the "best and brightest" join together to build a new one for that exact purpose? How sweet would that be?
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Reply: Member: cjanczy
8-22-2001 12:31:57 PM
Sounds like a great idea! Who's got experience running a bar or restaurant?
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Reply: Member: Arnie Morton contact this member 8-22-2001 1:06:44 PM
it's in my blood...
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Reply: Member: crash325 contact this member 8-22-2001 1:25:08 PM
Holiday Club is as good as anyplace I can think of for good "techie type" watering holes. Its got hipness, cool jukebox, and more bald/goateed-internet types than you can shake a stick at.
Its location in ultrahip tech-centric Wicker Park -- touted in a recent industry standard, (or was that red herring magazine? they all look alike nowadays) write up, not to mention they have the
requisite pool table, golden tee video game AND a photo booth for ADD types.
Forget it on the weekends though, too many people from the 847 Area Codes in there . . .
Attached URL: Holiday Club home page
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Reply: Member: cjanczy contact this member 8-22-2001 1:46:26 PM
Crash - thanks for the tip. I'm going to check it out. I still like Adam's idea, though.
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Reply: Member: carlini contact this member 8-22-2001 2:12:44 PM
Hmm--the beauty of Bucket of Suds was that it wasn't ultrahip - or maybe it was......It wasn't a brass and fern place, nor a place that some yuppies would walk into (which was nice!)
It was just a
great place to get a good drink (not overpriced like some of the near north joints) and have some great conversations.
Very eclectic patronage - also celebrities that didn't want to be seen at the
more "in" places. Martin Scorsese, Brian Dennehy, Elvis Costello and others. It would be had to replicate.
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Reply: Member: carlini contact this member 8-22-2001 2:20:01 PM
The Bucket would be "hard" to replicate (sorry typo).
He had stuff there LONG before it was considerd the"in" thing - Alaska King Crab Legs (a huge platter for $6 in the late
70s/early 80s). single malt scotches, aged bourbon, aged rum.
No pool table, black walls and ceiling (with a huge turtle hanging down), an old juke box with jazz classics on it. No - most of you
would NOT consider that hip. But that's why it was.
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Reply: Member: cjanczy contact this member 8-22-2001 2:38:03 PM
carlinin - I agree we can't replicate the Bucket, it was a different era. We can, however, attempt to create our own modern interpretation. All we need is for Arnie to show us how to run it and provide
the steaks :)
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Reply: Member: crash325 contact this member 8-22-2001 2:45:12 PM
Okay, where does it say that a watering hole CAN'T be hip? Remember, in the 70's, bars without ferns, or dance floors were for men, often older men.. Today, they're for everybody, male, female, young,
old, etc.
Newspaper guys were never hip, just lazy asses who didn't want to walk far to get their drinks and talk. The Billy Goat Tavern was another famous watering hole for writers in the 70s and
80s. Why?
Consider the proximity of the Sun Times/Tribune/old Daily News buildings to the 'Goat, its only natural that writers would hang out there, plus they could razz/brag/gossip with writers
from competing papers. And that made it a place to see and be seen.
Now, since quite a few web companies (not necessarily tech firms per se) are based in Wicker Park AND lotsa creative/geek types
live in WP--even though they work at technology companies elsewhere, it would seem natural to select a tavern in WP.
The choices in WP are Holiday Club, Nicks, Subterranean, Borderline, Pontiac Cafe, and Northside.
Take your pick!
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Reply: Member: Smalley contact this member 8-22-2001 2:51:35 PM
Well. The attempt to find anything near the perfection (imperfection) of Joe Danno's Bucket O' Suds (Knock...knock)could be a daunting task for a wanderlust soul in the city with fair time on their hands.
And God knows, the place itself was only half of the charm (If that). Which can't be bought or sold like most of Wicker Park. The charm was Joe himself. I still have the old newsletter he put out with
recipes, etc. God, I would love some BOS sauce right now. If I find something prox, will be happy to suggest to the few who know the old Cicero/Belmont mecca.
Carlini. Cjanczy. Thanks for the memories. Out.
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Reply: Member: whir2it contact this member 8-22-2001 3:10:18 PM
Good idea on the new hang out. I post with hesitancy (I know Carlini will chime in about how stupid and wrong I am) but I'm always interested in new watering holes. I do have a few but I'm only going to
mention the Charleston in Bucktown. Great neighbrohood bar that used to be filled with artists and writers but now has splashes of tech people (mostly due to the gentrification of the neighborhood).
$1.75 pbr and schlitz (used to be a buck). Dark, dingy, and old. They even play old jazz on vinyl (yes, vinyl). Good stuff.
The key is to find a decent owner who likes people. It's easy to hang
out there and MUST have an eclectic group of people who are NOT pretentious. I've had great conversations there about politics, economy, technology, music, art, and most importantly how most of them
intertwine.
We're kinda in a catch-22 here. If you post about a place that's cool, it loses it's coolness. It's about the hidden treasures. BTW (one more), a great hang out in WP is the Rainbow
Club.
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Reply: Member: RestaurantLady contact this member 8-22-2001 4:04:03 PM
I have many years of Restaurant ownership/management experience in addition to a several years of Hospitality POS/PC management solution experience and would love to help you create the perfect
"techie watering hole" if there are financial backers out there.
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Reply: Member: RestaurantLady contact this member 8-22-2001 4:04:57 PM
I have many years of Restaurant ownership/management experience in addition to several years of Hospitality POS/PC management solution experience and would love to help you create the perfect "techie
watering hole" if there are financial backers out there.
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Reply: Member: RestaurantLady contact this member 8-22-2001 4:05:54 PM
I have many years of Restaurant ownership/management experience in addition to several years of Hospitality POS/PC management solution experience and would love to help you create the perfect "techie
watering hole". If there are financial backers out there, let me know!
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Reply: Member: RestaurantLady contact this member 8-22-2001 4:19:28 PM
Sorry!!! I was a little trigger happy there and posted my message too quickly!! I didn't mean to post 4 messages!
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Reply: Member: Smalley contact this member 8-22-2001 4:24:18 PM
Re: Whirtoit Charleston
Definitely right on the money. Much better than Holiday or Nicks, ad nauseum. Good neighborhood. Great movies there. And if the beer is too expensive, Rich's First One Today
just down the road (Or Mickey's at the end of Leavitt) have $1 Pulls (Yes thats one dollar) of Old Style. ;)
Still, Charleston is best I've heard. Ya may wanna throw in Inner Town Pub for effect.
Just to get the ideas flowing for all of the Type of place we are getting toward.
Out.
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Reply: Member: cjanczy contact this member 8-22-2001 4:28:05 PM
Hey VCs! How about investing in our new "brick-n-mortar" bar operation? RestaurantLady is looking for backers.
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Reply: Member: John Coonen contact this member 8-22-2001 4:50:34 PM
Just make sure the bricks n mortar are pre-saturated with years of cigarette smoke and cooking oil residue. When you wanna come out northwest, beyond the 847 area code, we'll hit Duke O'Brien's.
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Reply: Member: davidkohn contact this member 8-22-2001 5:00:35 PM
COUNT ME IN!
I use to be a cook, bartender and waiter during my college days in Lake Geneva. I can make a mean Bloody Mary.
I have a few questions:
Location - where do we want this
puppy? do we want something in the river north area, where we can walk after work? Or do we something in Lincoln park/Lakeview, that has a central type location. Or are we thinking wicker park to make
sure no outsiders visit?
Name - what are we going to name this bad boy? how about "venture capital" or "dot drinks" or "I was paper rich and now I am poor again." I
didn't give these a lot of thoughts as you can tell.
Specials - we need cool specials and with a company or personality names. How about the "Mohan Milk Shake" or "Lederer's
Lemonade Vodka" or the way to obvious "Bob Bernard Burger?"
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Reply: Member: carlini contact this member 8-22-2001 5:16:39 PM
whir2it - thanks for the respect. That goes a long way.
No bar could ever match the Bucket simply for the fact that he made a LOT of his own liquers from scratch. It is said that he taught a
mixology class at Northwestern a long time ago. I wouldn't doubt that.
Wicker Park, Lincoln Park all out of the question. Too yuppified - which was not the ambliance of Bucket of Suds.
Joe had about 1600 different bottles of liquor on the bar. Not the typical "call brands" at every bar in the city. Jack Daniels was nothing compared to all the aged bourbon and sour mash that
he had. Same with scotches - both blended and single malt. Cognacs, armagnacs - spanish brandies. Stuff that NOBODY had. Once you went there - every other bar had junk for selection,
Some cool
bars (at least from a selection and drink standpoint) Coq D'Ors (Drake Hotel). Rosewood (around O'Hare)......but nothing compares..
And to those that know---I still haev a bottle of Waterfill & Frazier
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Reply: Member: cjanczy contact this member 8-22-2001 5:18:38 PM
I'd say Near West Side. Maybe on the site of the old March First HQ :)
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Reply: Member: cjanczy contact this member 8-22-2001 5:20:30 PM
To old Bucket devotees - who's got a recipe for Elixir Lucifer?
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Reply: Member: AdamFendelman contact this member 8-22-2001 5:24:36 PM
There should be no cover at the bar. Rather, a valid business card must be shown. No returns.
The bar's name? "Infusion."
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Reply: Member: cjanczy contact this member 8-22-2001 5:25:05 PM
Check out this link: http://www.devotchka.net/bio.html A band inspired by Joe Danno!
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Reply: Member: death contact this member 8-22-2001 7:40:25 PM
Dublins Dublins Dublins
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Reply: Member: Smalley contact this member 8-23-2001 10:47:59 AM
Re: Cjanczy Request Recipe
I'm Pretty sure I have some recipe from one of this newsletters. (Circa 90-91). Being as its on my fridge at home, i will check tonite and pass it on. Of course how does
one replicate the taste of the 10,000 other mixes made in that same small overworked blender at the end of the bar. I guess THAT was the special sauce. ;)
I would say that I can certainly do some
wandering this weekend but (as I'm sure Carlini would agree) you don't drive and find this place by effort. In true Zen fashion, it finds you.
Out.
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Reply: Member: cjanczy contact this member 8-23-2001 3:55:31 PM
Smalley - That would be great if you could find the recipe. I'm sure it would not be the same made at home, but I'm willing to try. I'll never forget the first time I went to the Bucket. I asked Joe for a
vodka on the rocks. He replied, "What kind of vodka do you want, I've got rice vodka, potato vodka, grain vodka ..." Then he pointed to rows of what looked like 40 or 50 different vodkas. That
was it. From then on, BOS became the standard by which all others were judged (to their detriment).
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Reply: Member: mull contact this member 8-25-2001 10:54:43 AM
Your bar ideas sound great. I've got some very hip associates with over 20 years managing and establishing bars and restaurants such as Bubba Gump Shrimp Factory, Big Bowl, and Liquid.
Let's hook up with some capital!!!
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Reply: Member: streamy contact this member 8-27-2001 9:45:31 AM
Death - aren't you sick of Dublin's yet?!
There's some water-themed dive on State, I think it is, that MWieland took us to after some XML Chicago event. What was that place? Much tackier and more
appropriate than any of the mainstream places that have been suggested. Rich's First One is the most appropriate choice I've heard so far. Think dive. Think hideaway. Otherwise, too many people will show
up.
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Reply: Member: baier contact this member 8-27-2001 11:01:01 AM
Streamy, I think you are referring to the Sea of Happiness Lounge at the Hotel Cass – perfect - a real barfly joint at a transient hotel... and yes, they have a website.
Attached URL: Cass Hotel - home of theSea of Happiness Lounge
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Reply: Member: Smalley contact this member 8-28-2001 8:51:13 AM
Cjanczy and Carlini:
Re recipes: Well, heres the rub! I found two recipes in one of Joe's newsletters. (Buy Buy American...Or it's Bye Bye America! ha ha)
One is for a drink I'm sure you've
had called "The Helicopter". Another one I haven't tried, but is called "The Chicago Loop".
Both are full recipes which require (guess what?) Elixer Lucifer. So, the search goes on.
However if either of you would like the recipes for the above, should you find that holy grail of
spirits, let me know and I will email them to ya. Would rather not post them here.
Out
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Reply: Member: streamy contact this member 8-28-2001 11:18:19 AM
Why yes, Baier, that is the lounge to which I refer. That's a good watering hole for such a crowd.
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Reply: Member: mwieland contact this member 8-28-2001 11:39:32 AM
I'll say there's a lot of good possibilities floating around, but there's a dichotomy between a hidden location that makes it feel special once you find it and the ability for a bar to support 1000+
different spirits.
This is such a typical dot-com conversation...let's have a bar with 10,000 different spirits that is so gritty only the hard-core fans will love it, and every drink needs to be
a dollar.
As for my vote(s)?
* The Sea of Happiness Lounge is an a great after-happy hours place in River North cum Gold Coast. * Dublin's is without a doubt one of the finest watering
holes in the city. Their beer is cold, the food is great (though not typical bar fare), and the view of the Viagra Triangle can't be beat.
* Holiday Club is fantastic, but I'd hardly compare it to the true grit of some Chicago establishments. * Charleston? I've never been there and I live three blocks away. Shame on me!
* Prestige Lounge is the hidden, single tap dive off of Diversey (near Lawry's) right off the El.
But my all time favorite "true Chicago" watering hole would have to be...Monks on Lake street below the El.
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Reply: Member: mwieland contact this member 8-28-2001 11:43:14 AM
For the record, the thought of The Sea of Happiness right now makes my mouth water. I need a good PBR at a dive shit-hole like that.
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Reply: Member: carlini contact this member 8-29-2001 1:21:40 AM
Anyone who ever walked in the Bucket of Suds has to agree. It wasn't a dive place, just a place to get a good drink and some food. Drinks weren't a buck - but they were very well-priced for the quality
that you got.
Beer on tap was cheap - but it wasn't cheap beer. He had Pilsner Urquell on tap (UNHEARD OF - when he had it), Bass Ale, and a bunch of others that the "hip crowd" would
think is "high end" - Hey, that was the standard at the Bucket.
Canned beer was from ALL over ---LONG before other bars even heard of the names! Red Stripe (from Jamaica), TsingZao
(China), a bunch of German and Czech beers, Corona, Dos Equis, etc. Stuff that now is the "in thing" - he had 15-20 years ago.
As for Elixir Lucifer (sort of like a Southern Comfort--but
not exactly) and his other creations - they were all smooth - as those that drank them would agree.
And people were eclectic--not all from I.T.--a lot of musicians--from rock, jazz to classical,
radio people--WXRT, WLUP, and others. Maybe a commonality - people that were good at what they did - and wanted a great palce to relax and have a good conversation---about a lot of things--NOT just I.T.
Some of the BIG discussions (across the bar) were about the quality of liquor - why some would pay $50 an ounce for perfume made in a day - and not $15 for a bottle of 18 year old bourbon.
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Reply: Member: carlini contact this member 8-29-2001 1:36:07 AM
To capture or describe the ambiance of Bucket of Suds would be hard to explain in words. I do not do it justice.......
People's personalities at the Bucket were always different, intense, and
friendly. Never any bar fights or rowdy types - Joe and his "guests" wouldn't allow it.
Characters at the bar were more like Humphrey Bogart, Joe Pesce, and Dennis Hopper and NOT like
Alan Alda, David Arquette, and Pauly Shore. In real life - Scorsese was there, Woody Allen wasn't.
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Reply: Member: mwieland contact this member 9-3-2001 5:34:39 PM
This is a Bucket of Suds reunion...wow...how touching.
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Reply: Member: itsallgood contact this member 9-4-2001 9:38:06 AM
The Green Door on Orleans is kinda non-hip hip.
Regarding names; it will immediately become a Planet Hollywood or Lettuce Entertain You ripoff if we have any reference to technology, VC, tech
celebs, etc. It should "happen" to cater to techie types, without being advertised as a "techie" bar.
Free net-browsing stations every 10 feet and at every table. A T-1 should
service about 30 connections fine. We could get adequate workstations or slightly used Pentium II laptops for a song.
No Golden Tee!
Maybe a bumper pool table.
Only bristle board dart boards - no electronic!
How about old pinball machines and Skee Ball?
How about the old sawdust and puck bowling games you see in the old neighborhood bars?
No dance floor or DJ booth. Old jukebox is OK. Absoloutely no massive subwoofers.
Free buffet during happy hour.
Must be off the beaten path - Not Rush, Division, or the usual high-traffic
areas for yuppies and suburbanites on a date safari.
Wicker Park is a strong candidate location. A steady population of locals is required to keep the place open every day.
Just a random thought stream.
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Reply: Member: baier contact this member 9-4-2001 6:38:37 PM
Green Door is great little place, but it's small and is usually very crowded - not exactly in need of adoption by a new crowd.
Although the name is reason enough for a nomination, the Stop &
Drink Liquor House on Clark and Chicago is a contender. Great decor, a outdoor patio, and terrific draft beer selection. Best of all, it is usually not very crowded and may be open to change.
If
anyone were looking to make some deals happen, I noticed that the two floors directly above are available for lease - maybe a banquet/meeting facility.
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